Start of the battle today. Good luck BAPIO and good luck to everybody who considers this exam to be unfair.
Don't forget to contribute a days salary to the BAPIO CSA fund.
Anonymous @ 840 the IMGs undergo exactly the same selection process for the GP training program. They then go through the same training, the same AKT, the same WPBA & the same ARCPs. So how come the significantly disparate results in the CSA exam ?
Even if you forget about the IMGs because,
'IMGs complete the majority of their medical education overseas, where general practice may not even exist as a discipline. It's not even something they grew up with. For some, foundation and specialty training is their first exposure to GP',
can you explain the significantly disparate results between 'white' and 'BME' UK graduates ?
I guess you would say that is because they are culturally different ? Exactly ! That is what bias is ! Switch the actors and the examiners to reflect the cultural make up of the United Kingdom today and then look at the results of this exam. The recent analysis in the BMJ correctly concludes that you can not exclude a bias based on race in the CSA exam as it is being conducted since 2010. It's a fact.
Anonymous @ 620, if you think there is no racial bias in the CSA exam then you should read the BMJ article more carefully. Bias is a very difficult concept and no doubt we are all guilty of succumbing to it in one way or another. The problem here is the fact that the bias in the RCGP exam leaves some candidates, from a specific and well defined group, disadvantaged. Having gone through exactly the same process at every stage as their peers, they are then left out at the last minute with no qualification or career in front of them. That can not be right.
As for Adrian Pointer's comment, times really have changed. The sooner the RCGP understands this, the better it is.
Evidence of racial bias in MRCGP exam claims author of independent review, as row erupts over 'contradictory' second version of research
Contribute one days salary to the BAPIO fund.
Wish we had taken the decision to go to the US........
Just looked at the report. RCGP must be commended for publishing such a comprehensive document. However there is absolutely no question that there is a problem with the exam system and the report confirms that, again.
The longer the college resists the call for change, the messier this gets. What this matter now needs is either a political action as in the case of MTAS ( this we know will never happen as this matter is linked to immigration) or a judicial decision.
What a blot this is, not just for the NHS, but for the United Kingdom that preaches the world on how to build a fair society.
Lol ! True colors !!
The medical profession and its leaders plays political football !
Tried to access the BAPIO website this evening but can't do so. A page opens to indicate that the website has been hacked. First the leak to Daily Mail and now this. How low can things get ?
Tried to access the BAPIO website this evening. Can't do so as a page opens up that indicates the website has been hacked. How low can things get ?
I agree with Vinci Ho. I thought that the desperation regarding this situation was only on the side of the trainees failing CSA and being on the roads. However the posts and the replies suggest that the college does not know how to deal with this either.
I have posted previously discouraging people to express their views here or on any other internet forums regarding this matter but decided to wade in again because of this new 'research'.
There is absolutely no point in expressing one's views when the other side can not even begin to understand you.
The issue Dr Gerada, if you have not realised this by now, is how you are leading people down a path and then pushing them out at the edge of the very last step. Could you have done this if the trainees affected were overwhelmingly white UK graduates ? The answer, if you do not have the courage to admit it yourself, is no.
The CSA exam is inherently biased against IMGs and your figures are proof of that. You judge empathy in the exam setting, well how empathetic has the college been to the needs of IMGs who are on the roads after 3-4 years of training with absolutely nothing to show in terms of qualification. If you can't train them then don't take them on.
The harsh reality is that by not taking affirmative action on this matter you are single handedly destroying the reputation of the College and tarnishing the image of general practice.
Oh Lord ! This is the RCGP chair !!!
What an excellent post by Dr Ahmed. Well done.
I can tell you that this wretched exam is causing mental health problems in the IMG community on a grand scale, not just for the doctors taking the exam but their spouses and children as well. But who cares ?
Following the recent round of CSA & ARCP, I can state with certainty that at least 6 trainees have been given an outcome 4 (released from training) in one deanery alone. The claim of 30 trainees being thrown out of training every year can NOT be correct.
This matter is a complete and utter mess and becomes worse with every passing day. We talk about compensation and ET but who is going to return the years spent by the trainees trying to study for an exam they just cannot pass. Whoever heard of giving the same emphasis to linguistics / social norms, in an exam for doctors, as to clinical diagnosis and management.
An absolute and utter disaster. Why did we ever come here....
I agree with Joydeep's post.
Stop bickering. Do not post here or in any other Internet forum now. Get behind whichever group you wish to, the more the better.
Good luck with both ET & JR but stay away from Internet forums.....
I think people on the ground / deaneries are all sensible people and in touch with reality. The Royal colleges, all colleges without exception, are filled with people who sit in their ivory towers and give orders. They don't care about doctors, leave alone IMGs. In my view if it was up to the Royal Colleges no IMG would ever get a consultant / GP principal post.
With regards the CSA no one is asking for a two tier system. What we are asking for is an assessment method that is not inherently biased against a particular group of doctors. The CSA is.
133 doctors thrown out of training. That is awful but tough.....
Now imagine if the 133 trainees were UK graduates....
and now imagine if the 133 trainees were white UK graduates...
If this was the case this debate would have been addressed in 2010 and we would have been looking at a better system of assessment. Hey better still, we might have gone back to the previous one !!!
If anyone asks me to attend equality and diversity training again ....
I agree completely with Dr Prabhu about some of the posts, they make for some awful reading. The issue is with the exam and not with individuals. Also was rather intrigued with the article in the Daily Mail. The British public surely realises that IMGs form a significant proportion of the nhs and provide excellent services and this type of scare mongering does no one any good.
I have been a Consultant for almost 10 years but have for the first time thought that we made the wrong decision by coming to the UK. We may be 'allowed to stay' here but I don't think we will ever be accepted as an equal. I worry for our children....