This site is intended for health professionals only

At the heart of general practice since 1960

Read the latest issue online

A faulty production line

More pointless than a dead parrot

  • Print
  • 17
  • Rate
  • Save

I had just had a lengthy conversation with an experienced staff nurse working in a busy nursing home. It was the middle of the night. The patient had fallen, was now back in bed, and the staff wanted to give her some paracetamol.

Which organisation is responsible for making nurses believe they are unable to recognise a dead patient? 

'Before you do that,' I asked the nurse, 'are you sure the patient is alive? I mean, can you verify that?'

'Well of course I can,' shot back the nurse, 'she’s obviously alive as she’s talking to me'.

I was immediately relieved, but at the same time slightly confused. This was the same nurse, who only a week previously, had been unable to verify that a patient (who was expected to die) was dead. When I left medical school all patients were either alive, or dead. Excepting some debate over brain stem death which we can probably overlook in a primary care setting, there was no half way house, but this may have changed of course with medical advances being what they are. Do you find it strange that some nurses are unable to verify an expected death, which by extension means that they could be treating patients who could actually be deceased, or not necessarily alive?

Each time I get asked to verify a death by a nurse, usually in the out-of-hours setting, a small part of me fades away. Which organisation is actually responsible for making nurses really believe that they are unable to recognise a dead patient? It truly is a bit Monty Pythonesque - except it relates to humans and not parrots.

'I haven’t got a certificate,' is the usual response from nursing colleagues when I ask what prevents them from verifying a death. Well apart from my cycling proficiency badge neither have I that I can lay my hands on, but it is great that the BMA actually have some guidance on this issue.

This states that there is no legal obligation for a GP to attend a deceased patient (unless the death is unexpected). Also, the patient can be declared dead by a relative, member of staff in a nursing home, ambulance personnel or the police according to the guidance. It stops short of recommending the cleaner, postman, or refuse collector but I suspect if they were available they could be called on if necessary. In one of our nursing homes a patient actually has a pet parrot who talks, so it would be great to get its opinion and open up all sorts of possibilities for a Monty Python rerun.

I’ve no doubt that in the over-regulated world that surrounds medical practice now, we will soon all be attending death verification courses, or being asked to prove that we have verified at least five deaths this year (maybe six, or even seven depending which number is plucked by the master of 'it seems a good idea but there is no evidence'-based protocols at NHS England).

So, as you reflect on each of your morning consultations before diligently adding it to your appraisal folder, remember to ask the all important question: that last patient was alive wasn’t he?

Richard Cook is a GP partner in Hurstpierpoint, West Sussex. You can follow him on Twitter @drmoderate

Rate this blog  (4.9399999999999995 average user rating)

Click to rate

  • 1 star out of 5
  • 2 stars out of 5
  • 3 stars out of 5
  • 4 stars out of 5
  • 5 stars out of 5

0 out of 5 stars

Readers' comments (17)

  • LOL. The best one I've heard so far was "my certificate is only valid for my hospital job and I cannot verify in the community"!

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • I have had a local home phone me to verify a death, and 5 minutes later they phoned up to cancel my visit as she had sat up and started talking again!!!!!!!

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • Our local OOH lead GP has an email from the nursing and midwifery council confirming that the ability to verify death is a core competence for every nurse registered in the UK.
    Not that it does him much good in practice.

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • Nursing home companies are private employers and the blanket company policies limit the professional remits of their employees to the risks they are willing to take/being paid for.

    As they provide private services, the NHS does not have an enforceable governance link with them and they can pretty much step back at will and let the NHS take over and all of this with full blessing of the regulators.

    Funny old world.

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • If the NHS has to take over and there is doubt as to whether the patient is dead then perhaps it is best to call an ambulance?

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • Logically the ability to confirm a truth does not imply the ability to confirm its absence.being able to confirm life doesn't mean one can prove death!

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • I was always told any member of the public can "certify" death. I always polite decline to visit and never have any problem. Another thing OOH doctors do which is unnecessary is to give scrips to people who have forgotten or lost their medication. All pharmacies have a contract to provide short term medicine until they can get to their own again I politely so no.

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • This is what I tend to have running through my head whenever asked to certify:

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • Hi,
    I found this statement quite upsetting. Most nurses would love to be able to verify death in the community as it would help Drs, nurses and relatives i.e cutting down waiting times to be verified and reduce amount of people turning up to disturb the grieving.
    As a community nurse I have found it very frustrating not to verify death. For a short period where I worked we had to go on a course and follow a strict protocol to verify death to then have this task taken off us because the Coroner for the area deemed that community nurses should not verify death.
    Us nurses are perfectly capable of verifying expected death but unfortuantely the powers that be won't allowed it.

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

  • As a night nurse in a community hospital I verified death for 15 years I work as a district nurse and need to attend a 2 day course if I want to be able to verify...I'm told that if I verify death without having completed the course I would be diciplined or even struck off... Verification needs to be included in the training curriculum

    Unsuitable or offensive? Report this comment

View results 10 results per page20 results per page

Have your say

  • Print
  • 17
  • Rate
  • Save