GPs forced to ask practice nurses to purchase indemnity cover

Our practice nurses have always been included in the MDU practice scheme. It does not cost anything extra and is worth it as far as peace of mind of the partners is concerned. who knew what the RCN cover was worth anyway? I would rather stick with one organisation that i know I can trust.

Do not really know what the cafuffle is about apart from one (of many) GP hating organisations to try and score a political point.

Not worth rising to the bait.

There is an extra cost of approximately £450 per year to the MDU if the nurse is prescribing.

The MDU will only offer free cover for PNs who do not have any extended roles. For nurses that have extended roles such as prescribing then its > £500 /year.

Its hard to take seriously concerns about practice finances when on the thread about pensions many GP's are getting concerned about the 50% tax rate that doesnt kick in until earnings are above £150k. Im all for well paid GP's given the training and responsibility they have but there has to be some balance.

Sorry but it is 100K and the reduction in personal allowance at this level means the actual figure is upto 62%. So remain anonymous till you get your facts right!

well done Shah ji

All this in fighting/back stabbing helps none of us.Our flack should be directed at the RCN who unilaterally have brought this about.Its up to the nurses to deal with their own organisation at stand up for their rights.I am sure that they should be demanding a reduction in their membership fees if the service they get is less than what they paid for!!

I am a practice nurse. I dont understand it either!
Why can RCN still take our money and not give us the cover. we are nurses at the end of the day. I for one have had no info on this from the RCN. It is shameful of the RCN. and needs to be addressed. I have lodged my feeling with RCN and await outcomes! Why are medical defence bodies able to claim back from the RCN for Practice Nurse cases. That is a question you Gps and Practice managers need to be asking your insurance people!

It has long been a condition of Salaried GP employment in many areas that they themselves provide MPS/MDU cover. Why should it be different for practice nurses, especially those in extended roles?

Why should the RCN make a change to their terms and expect GPs to pick up the tab?

Would a sessional GP take the responsibility of assessing & diagnosing and prescribing for patients, plus pay their own indemnity insurance for £17 an hour? With 30 years nursing experience I do this because I want to provide good care, and I have worked hard to gain these extended role qualifications. With a pay freeze and increased pension contributions looming, to be expected to find another £500 per year to do this would hardly seem fair, fortunately my employers agree, which is why they have staff loyalty and respect.

That argument does not hold any water. Sessional GPs and indeed GP Partners are also facing a pay freeze, and additional contributions etc. And our indemnity fees are £5000, not £500. Would I work for £17 per hour? No, but then I studied for longer to become a doctor (compared to the length of time to become a nurse) and carry more responsibility and treat a wider range of problems than an extended scope nurse. I imagine that if you could earn more via another route, you would take that option. I doubt your motives are fully altruistic - I work to earn a living, as do you.

I'd glad for you that your employers are paying for your indemnity. The question is: YOUR union has withdrawn a benefit. Why should GP partners pick up the cost of this?

This is the best thing to happen to halt the rise of nurses operating as doctors without a proper medical training. I have never a nurse pracitioner who actually understands enough about the diseases/'minor' illness they 'treat' or medications they prescribe. This is important as practising as a doctor via nurse course and a protocol leaves nurses exposed, as they do not know enough about what they are doing. The service of providing antibiotics for symptom ticked box upper respiratory illness, bypassing mother nature and other remedies, will only serve to increase patient demand and expectation in the years ahead. You need a well trained doctor to explain to patients why nasal drops are better, which often involves a discussion about nasal anatomy & physiology as well as sinus pathology and the pharamacological issues involved. This is proper medicine and in my experience, gets better results and reduces demand as educated patients can self-manage. The Royal College of Nurses, I believe, do know how exposed nurses are knowlege-wise in many nursing roles particularly nurse practitioners. They (for political reasons) and local GPs (for financial reasons) have sat back and supported the rise of the doctoring-nurse in order to facilitate nurse empowerment/empire building (so nurses feel important) and allow GPs to meet patient's inappropriate demands (score highly on patient satisfaction surverys) . This has all happened without nurses being academically tested via written and oral examination to the SAME MEDICAL SCHOOL LEVEL as GPs. Why should patients get short-changed? If a nurse practitioner sees me INDEPENDENTLY (as is the only pragmatic thing to do in busy general practice) about my sinusitis with a prescription pad in hand, will she be able to provide me with the necessary information regarding why I don't need antibiotics? If I get a macrolide, will she check I'm not on a statin? Minor illess is not easy, it merely early disease and requires the whole skill set of doctoring as complex disease does.

Dear Dr Davis
Many Nurse Practitioners have completed the MSc Advanced Nurse Practitioner during which they are supported in competencey acquisition by GPs. This is in addition to numerous post basic accredited courses, in minor & chronic conditions. All research to date demonstrates nurses prescribe less antibiotics than GPs because they spend more time educating the patients as to why they don't need them. Furthermore yes, nurses are more guideline / protocol driven which is preciseley many were advising patients to stop their statin with macrolides long before many GPs were. Many of your GP colleagues can see the benefits of working with nurse practitioners and some GPs even run rigourous accredited minor illness degree courses to facilitate practice nurses extending their role into minor illness. Look up the National Minor Illness Centre / Stopsley Minor Illness Course, run by GPs Dr Gina Johnson & Dr Ian Hill-Smith;This is an excellent example of the calibre of evidence based minor illness training nurses can access. Merry Christmas to you.